Forum:Uu = English?
Is this possible? There are only TWO of the cherub species currently. We know that her brother is crazy, violent, an out to kill. He is ALSO a masterclass of the hero of time - which, OMFG, HE COULD BE A TIME LORD / LORD OF TIME - which would mean he could be anywhere, anywhen, an exist at ANY moment. Just saying. It's a plausible idea. - 184.79.114.183 Yeah, it's plausible. Alternatively, uu could simply be a Lord English before he became Lord English. MadHatter121 16:24, June 17, 2012 (UTC) That was how I took it, that he was just what came before , even though was already here. felinoel 13:04, June 18, 2012 (UTC) :This really should be on the talk page but: We were talking in the IRC the other day about evidence that uu may be and I made a comment that we have to look out for uu losing his leg. After a single panel update I already think I know how he will lose his leg (assuming he is Lord English). :We now know that Calliope is wearing a shackle bearing uu's symbol and if the Calmasis picture is anything to go by uu is wearing a shackle bearing Calliope's symbol (In a side note: this is also the largest piece of evidence against the one-body theory in awhile unless I am mistaken). Now we already know that uu has a bunch of connections to the Saw films, and now we know he may also be wearing a shackle. I think what I am implying is so obvious now that I'm not going to bother saying it. (Oh but someone else already noticed and added it to English's page w/e) The Light6 07:13, June 19, 2012 (UTC) :While you make a good point ^^^ there is the fact that uu's shackle goes on his left leg, and Lord English is in fact missing his right leg, not his left. There's a fair chance that either of them were sprite-flipped at the itme and I'm totally wrong, however. ::In the Homestuck universe there are no "right" and "left" legs. People keep making this mistake. When Calliope her shackle is on the right side, when she her shackle is on the left side. The Light6 00:46, June 25, 2012 (UTC) ::Also, forgot, when since when Calliope faces the left it is on the right side, therefore when uu faces the left it will most likely on the left side. Our picture of English is facing to the left and his missing leg is on the left side too fitting uu. (Note when I am refering to left and right I mean from our perspectives, not theirs because their direction changing attributes would just make that confusing). The Light6 00:52, June 25, 2012 (UTC) I think these assumptions about uu being LE are very reasonable and all, but there's one thing makes me unsure of it: "uu: BuLLSHIT. I AM BASICALLY THE MASTER OF ALL RED HERRINGS. THEY SWIM THROuGH MY VEINS. THIS WAY AND THAT. YOu HAVE TO BE VERY GOOD AT RED HERRINGS. WHEN YOu ARE AS GOOD AT GAMES AS ME. " uu being LE is such an obvious choice it might be a red herring, and uu himself said he was basically full of red herrings. Yeah, just thought I put that out here. 03:46, June 25, 2012 (UTC) :Of course that could reference all the red herrings regarding English so far eg. Jack being Lord English, people assuming that Jake English was going to become Lord English somehow, or how he and Calliope were mistaken for trolls, and their connection to the Sufferer and such. Of course then it goes it reverse with people thinking the single body idea was a red herring (personally I thought Hussie making so obvious that they shared a body, so that people thought all the evidence was a bunch of red herrings made it MORE likely that they shared their body). So that means all the evidence for him being English could be red herrings, an attempt at another reverse herring, or some sort of double reverse herring or a double red herring or who knows. The Light6 04:09, June 25, 2012 (UTC) ::You've forgotten the double mobius reverse red herring reacharound. Anyway, those are all very good points, but my main qualm with the theory is that we witnessed LE's birth, the process of which makes it doubtful he could've come from anywhere else. Then again, he could form differently in different universes, who knows? Aepokk Venset 04:12, June 25, 2012 (UTC) :::OMFG wow, uu being LE is just a red herring is so obvious now!? x.x 15:03, June 25, 2012 (UTC) ::::Yeah it could be a reverse herring trap. But I don't think we saw LE's birth, we just saw him being summoned into the ALternian universe, he has entered many other universes that way according to Doc Scratch. So that wasn't his "origin" really, we still don't know where he originally came from. 20:06, June 25, 2012 (UTC) Could you give me Scratch's exact quote, or at least the page? Aepokk Venset 22:53, June 25, 2012 (UTC) : It also reveals that their are multiple instances of Scratch too, which makes me think he may be the first guardian for the Cherubs. The Light6 00:45, June 26, 2012 (UTC) Unlike the First guardians there is only one Lord English. It doesn't make any sense for him to have been born through any specific first guardian such as Doc Scratch. Scratch served as a gateway to the kids and trolls universes. We still do not know where/when LE came/comes from. That said if the final purpose of the kids and trolls mission is to end the cycle of creating and destroying universes by defeating LE then wouldn't it make sense For it all to end at the very beginning.(explanation in case you don't understand. If uu is LE and he is in b2 than it would be the Start of LE reign of sburb and if the kids and trolls beat him in b2 session it would be the end. therefore it would end where it began.)--ɐlıƃǝɔɥu∩ǝʇıʌoɹɐʌ∩ 00:03, June 26, 2012 (UTC) :"Instances of myself have spawned in countless universes, and my objective is always the same. I have never once failed to complete this objective, and I never will." So I'm thinking that, like TheLight said, there are versions of Doc Scratch in many universes (which makes sense with Cal being seemingly omnipresent), and that LE might always be born from Scratch. He might very well be the first guardian for the cherubs, or maybe the Pre-Scratch Trolls (though I find that less likely), and I agree with CrystalGriffin's point of it starting where it began. There's a lot backing this whole ouroboros theme, including the decreasing session player numbers (48 presumably, 12, 4, 2), 2 being the minimum and probably starting the cycle over because of it. This also ties in with Calliope's snake theme. Willing to bet Calliope's juju is Cal (due to undyingUmbrage's reaction to seeing Dirk's), and undyingUmbrage might possibly have a cue ball? Aepokk Venset 01:56, June 26, 2012 (UTC) ::Yep, fairly sure there are multiple Scratches though technically they would be the same Scratch in a different body, just like English being summoned into the universe is the same English but with a new body each time (depending on how exactly it works). But yeah I am fairly sure Scratch himself confirmed he wasn't the first guardian for the pre-scratch trolls. But yeah if Scratch is the cherub's first guardian and uu is English it could mean that Scratch has been communicating with uu. It could also explain that drawing that Calliope drew, if uu has been meeting with Scratch she might have subconscious memory of him (I mean Scratch made Kanaya go to sleep and awoke her Dream self, who knows what he could be doing to UU/uu if he is there). The Light6 03:19, June 26, 2012 (UTC) :Unlike the First guardians there is only one Lord English. :How can you be sure of this? 13:15, June 26, 2012 (UTC) ::How can I be sure there is multiple Scratches? Because Scratch himself said so. The Light6 13:31, June 26, 2012 (UTC) Just thinking, if I remember right there is no "true" way to defeat LE, however if uu is LE, and if I remember what Calliope said that saying her name when uu is about would make her awaken, isn't that a technical way of "defeating" LE if he is uu? JimSan 23:39, June 26, 2012 (UTC) :You answered your own question - There is no "true" way to defeat him and even if he was told Calliope's name he still wouldn't be truly defeated. Also there is the possibility that uu has somehow purged himself of Calliope making that weakness another red herring. The Light6 00:03, June 27, 2012 (UTC) ::Ohhhh, by Scratch you meant Doc Scratch, yeah there is only one of him. 13:38, June 27, 2012 (UTC)